10 years of Project-Builder !

2017/09/24

Well, I think it’s worth to celebrate that milestone ! I’m now publishing officially the version 0.14.6 of project-builder.org for its 10th anniversary.

Everything started to solve an issue I had when I took over the maintenance of the MondoRescue project. It was very difficult in 2005 to consume the project. People had to download a tar file, follow a very succint recipe to build and install it and then being finally able to use it. The tool was supporting a lot of Linux distributions, but was difficult to use by these same distributions. So I started to build some shell scripts to help me deliver Linux distributions packages to solve that. I realized that I was duplicating stuff to address Fedora and RHEL, SuSE and SLES, Mandrake and Mandriva, … Even when building for other types such as Debian and Ubuntu or Gentoo. Typically all these distributions want a summary, a description, dependencies, changelog, … And I hate duplicating stuff. Also I realized I wasn’t the only one in need of this type of support. LinuxCOE, a peer project at HP was also in need of this, as well as many others.

So in 2007, I decided to rewrite my scripts in a more powerful language, perl (thanks Larry Wall ! and BTW I continue to find it way superior to a lot of younger ones, calling themselves more modern :-)). And version 0.5 was soon published as I used my vacation that year to code a lot for it.

It was way before I started to blog, and blog about it was among the first articles I decided to write. Of course, along the years, features have been developed, capabilities extended. I’m now able to generate project-builder.org it self and MondoRescue for 130 tuples of distributions. THat’s a proof this is possible, and that a tool like that can help achieving it.

10 years ago, I had to invent a configuration file format to support my needs. I wanted to have the least possible number of hard coded elements in project-builder.org. I created my own format, pretty simple mimicing the perl hash being: keyword param = value[,value]. At that time, YAML and JSON weren’t that popular, and I wasn’t aware of perl modules to support these, despite the fact they were existing, and my knowledge of CPAN wasn’t that accurate.
But at least I had inheritance mechanisms, and fucntions to deal with it, whch proved to be extremely useful to migrate.

So It’s now time, for the next 10 years to adopt a format, nearly as simple as mine, as easy to map to perl hashes as mine, and I chose YAML, benig lazy and finding it easier to manage manually (like mine was). Of course, this will have some consequences, as some old build environment don’t provide it so I may drop support for some very old distributions. If needed BTW something can be done as we have the source !! Version 0.15.1 is already in progress, and project-builder.org is now able to build itself, including in VMs or Docker containers for other distributions using that new format. And due to the mechanisms in place, I’ve kept easily all the features, just moving to a new format. I’ll start to work soon on migrating the conf files of MondoRescue to have another project working with that version. I’m also working in HPE with another team that is starting to use it as well, and I chose to adopt for them the new version to benefit from the way forward.

Finally, as I mentioned previously, the tool is now in use by the FOSSology project as well in the Linux Foundation build infrastructure. With the latest version 0.14.6, now FOSSology builds at least native packages for CentOS 7 on a CentOS 7 platform. Now we’ll work on the generation of packages for the other distributions the project want to support (which will be pretty easy now the infra is in place), in order to cover the topic during the Open Source Summit in Prague in October, providing I get approval to travel there (as I’m traveling quite a lot these days).

So happy birthday to project-builder.org and let’s start working on the next YAML based version, and help more projects adopt it !

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Meet at SUSECon 2017, Prague

2017/09/16

As the sessions I proposed for the event weren’t accepted, I considered I had no chance to attend this year SUSECon. But it turned out that there was a need for HPE to have someone able to talk about Helion OpenStack on the booth, and I have been chosen to do it, so I’ll be around this year, for the first time, from the 25th to the 29th of September, in the beautiful city of Prague (will be my 4th time there !).

I’ll look forward meeting with some of my SUSE friends over there, and discover a new event.

Of course, as usual feel free to come and talk to me (I should be on the HPE booth when it’s open) of OpenStack, SUSE CaaS (as we’re working on a Reference Architecture on Synergy) and of course Open Source in general, and early music in particular ūüėČ

It’s been a while

2017/09/12

When I look at the date of the last post, indeed it’s been a while since I took time to write here.

Many reasons to that, I took time off this summer to lead the infrastrcuture track at the RMLL, then to make music, for the 28th year in a row with 3 concerts and a diaporama, to visit Normandy with part of my family (Caen, Rouen, the Bayeux Tapestry, Honfleur, and many other places), back to work for some days and then doing another concert with the Variations ensemble I lead around François Ier in Monêtier les bains.

Then back to work. On top of my normal activities for HPE, I tried to incorporate various fixes into MondoRescue to finally publish 3.3.0, but that has again been delayed ūüė¶ It seems I have a hard time publishing it, despite getting good patches or making them myself. I destroyed a system while doing tests, which forced me to update to Mageia 6 published meanwhile to put it back on track ! That didn’t help, and also I now need to check again but in VMs to avoid that issue and fix it for good (was too confident my modified code was working, but I was obviously wrong !). This is linked to fixes in mindi in order to fix size of initrd and its automatic computation. THat should be part of 3.3.0 as a consequence.

In order to solve support for multiple GPG keys signing my packages, I’ve had to go back to project-builder.org, and enhance it. Which lead to the publication of 0.14.6 (still not fully finished, despite code being frozen). And also I had work during my vacation time on chaging the format of project-builder.org conf files, from our own, to a YAML based one. For now, it’s just a change in format, not a semantic one, but that ill allow to improve some aspects, and also I get for free a syntax analysis with the perl YAML.pm module, which is nice (add -v to get the conf file concerned). So version 0.15.1 should come soon, once my 2 main users outside of myself won’t complain about bugs anymore.

One of these projects is FOSSology, and I should present the joint result of our common work with Michael Jaeger on the build infrastructure we put in place for the project to do Continuous Packaging at the upcoming Open Source Sumit in Prague in October, but it seems HPE doesn’t want to support my trip (I still didn’t get travel approval yet) and I may have to pay for it myself for the first time since I started talking at this conference back in …Prague in 2011. If you know anybody who would sponsor me, that would be great !!

Speaking of conferences, I’m this week at the Open Source Summit in Los Angeles, as part of my HPE job, where I lead a round table this morning on containers (are they the future of IaaS ?).

So despite having been quiet for long, Ive been busy as usual, and trying to improve the software I’m contributing to, andour global ecosystem, as well as the musical one. Hopefully you’ll get more news soon, as new releases and travel arrive !

First attendance to TuleapCon 2017

2017/06/30

Today, I had been invited to attend TuleapCon 2017. Ok, nothing to do with the Open Source Summit (formerly LinuxCon) with regards to size ūüėČ And it was just one hour drive from Grenoble ! But it was focussing on the Tuleap ALM solution, and was proposing customer testimonies so I was tempted to attend. Also because I know the CTO of Enalean, Manuel Vacelet, who demonstrated Docker to me during an excellent meetup he was leading and I was sure that he would again be very interesting to hear him expose the technology they develop.

And I wasn’t wrong ūüôā Some 40 people attended the event, testimonies were given by Airbus, Orange, CEA, ST Microelectronics, each time with very large user base and different use cases demonstrating the versatility of the tool. Also some integration work with other tools were demonstrated and explained.

What is impressive, is that today you can find such a company developing a solution and proposing it under the GPL. It’s so rare it needs to be underlined, and the spirit of the team is obviously influenced positively by that. Then they have some strong advantages wrt other ALM I’ve been able either to use or to consider: the methodolgy used to develop the software is a parameter of Tuleap. So you can decide to use a waterfall approach or Scrum or Kanban (the last one was unknown to me but the virtual posti-it dashboard sems not only nice but effective). And the other impressive aspect is that they do not only talk about automation, but they’re paranoid about it, and that’s really nice to see at that point in operation for software development.

So is everything nice and shiny. Well yes, but as with every powerful tool, you need time to become comfortable with it. At least that was my impression after playing a bit with it. I’m sure you’ll get rewarded, and I’m looking at the possibility to replace my old trac instance with it to be able to go further in the automation on my own projects. Not for tomorrow, but something to add to the TODO list ūüėČ (and no, you don’t want to see that !!)

Another nice aspet is their Open Roadmap offering: In short it’s a mutualization process to get features developed. And that’s not only clever, but again efficient. Of course, you need some large corporations to sustain the model, but that will alow at the end even more sharing around their platform by the users. More companies should adopt that.

And it was also interesting to see the work they are doing with StackStorm to enable a smooth cooperation between many automation tools. I think our Alexandria idea should be moved to this framework and benefit from all the existing integration. We would “just” need to add an iTop package to StackStorm, and a Redfish one, and most of what we try to do would be there.

BTW, the idea of combining the iTop CMDB and the Tuleap ALM to have a fully software defined and automated data center is really an apealing one. Will try to make that happen somehow ūüėČ

So great day, learned a lot, so a useful day, lots of new ideas in mind, definitely worth the time, and if you want to experiment yourself, then attend the RMLL next week and we can all talk together as they will be around as well as myself ! And the last idea would be to convince them to use Continuous Packaging for Tuleap with Project-Builder.org ūüėČ

Meet at the Open Source Summit NA 2017

2017/06/26

Despite difficult times for HPE, I’m still supported by my management to continue to represent HPE during tier 1 Open Source events such as the Open Source Summit North America, held in Los Angeles from the 11th to the 14th of September. Well, of course, because I was accepted as a speaker again !

I’ll lead a round table to cover with panelists whether “Containers are the future of IaaS ?

So as usual, if you are around, I’ll happy to discuss with you around Open Source in general, and the projects I’m involved with in particular such as MondoRescue (yes, there will be a new version soon, now remains to see the definition of soon), project-builder.org (same thing), Redfish, containers, early music or more.

Le logiciel libre en marche ?

2017/06/09

En dehors de la musique ou de l’informatique, J’exprime ici de temps √† autre une opinion li√©e √† la politique. Et comme tout fran√ßais, les √©lections m’int√©ressent. Alors je me suis renseign√© avant la pr√©sidentielle sur le site En Marche, pour savoir leur position sur le logiciel libre, √©tant int√©ress√© par le positionnement europ√©en, un certain nombre des id√©es et le comportement du candidat lors des d√©bats. Et bien qu’il y ait une pleine page consacr√©e au num√©rique, rien sur mon sujet favori ūüė¶ J’ai envoy√© un mail sur leur plate-forme mais n’ai pas re√ßu de r√©ponse (je suppose que la demande √©tait plus grande que la bande passante disponible pour r√©pondre).

J’avais assist√© en Mai √† une tr√®s int√©ressante pr√©sentation d’Olivier V√©ran sur le programme, o√Ļ j’avais √©t√© convaincu par les √©l√©ments (et notamment son raisonnement tr√®s clair sur le domaine de la sant√© qu’il connait visiblement tr√®s bien et les am√©liorations potentielles qu’on peut y faire), aussi bien que par le personnage, √† l’image pour moi de celui qui n’√©tait pas encore pr√©sident. De plus, il a vraiment √©t√© actif √† l’assembl√©e lors de son s√©jour comme suppl√©ant de G. Fioraso.

Mais lorsque je lui avais de nouveau pos√© la question sur le positionnement d’En Marche sur le logiciel Libre, il n’avait pas pu me r√©pondre (ce que j’avais trouv√© plus honn√™te que de me mener en bateau !).

La campagne candidats.fr reprenant, j’ai regard√© sur le site et constat√© que comme souvent beaucoup de signataires √©taient FI (60+), Verts, PC, Pirates, mais peu LREM (9 ce soir).

Donc, ce soir, je suis retourn√© √† la r√©union publique d’Olivier V√©ran qui se pr√©sente pour la premi√®re circonscription de l’Is√®re (r√©union aussi int√©ressante que la pr√©c√©dente du reste au passage) et lui ai demand√© s’il √©tait pr√™t √† signer le pacte du logiciel libre, apr√®s avoir resitu√© cette question.

Il m’a dit l’avoir vu passer dans ses mails, que son site en utilisait, que Mounir Mahjoubi, secr√©taire d‚Äô√Čtat charg√© du num√©rique en √©tait un partisan √©galement (mais tout le monde ne semble pas n√©cessairement d’accord avec cela) et qu’il √©tait donc favorable au soutien. Il a imm√©diatement sign√© le pacte et j’ai envoy√© une copie sur candidats.fr qui pourra ainsi mettre le site √† jour. Qu’il en soit ici remerci√© !

Je pourrai donc maintenant le recontacter pour parler avec lui autour de certains aspects de l’√©conomie du libre, des libert√©s num√©riques dans notre monde ou du droit d’auteur, ce qui fermera la boucle vers les arts et la musique, dont notre nouveau pr√©sident semble √™tre aussi amateur.

Esp√©rons que cela repr√©sente les pr√©mices d’une politique ambitieuse en mati√®re d’adoption des logiciels libres, au moins au niveau de l’√©tat et des collectivit√©s locales, pour favoriser l’emploi peu d√©localisable et les soci√©t√©s de services locales, ainsi que des √©conomies substantielles au vue de la place de plus en plus grande occup√©es par le logiciel dans nos environnements. Ce n’est pas plus une utopie que les autres r√©formes qui semblent vouloir √™tre men√©es. il y aura du bien et du moins r√©ussi sans doute, mais je sens une volont√© d’oeuvrer pour le bien public. Et quoi de plus en ligne avec cette approche que le logiciel libre ?

Meet at the RMLL 2017

2017/06/07

This year the RMLL are coming back, from the 1st to the 7th of July and in my region, in St Etienne ! And this year, I am not only a speaker, but also a co-track leader for the Server track.

With my talks, You’ll be able to learn about the latest news for MondoRescue, project-builder.org, Docker, Redfish and python-redfish, Mageia and much more from my co-speakers (Ethereum, CMS, Cloud Native app, Unikernels, …) and even more from Keynote speakers as well.

Lodging is now available, so book quickly and let meet us there !

Un septennat d’attente

2017/05/14

Lors de la premi√®re √† Ambronay en 2010, je ne savais pas qui √©tait Falvetti. Je n’√©tais pas le seul. J’aurai sans doute d√Ľ faire confiance √† Leonardo Garcia Alarcon d√©j√† pr√©sent dans de nombreux disque de l’Ensemble Elyma de Gabriel Garrido. Et puis j’ai √©cout√© le disque paru en 2011 de ce “Il Diluvo Universale” et ce fut un coup de massue : Comment avait-on pu ignorer une telle oeuvre depuis 1682 !!

Elle a pour elle l’√©nergie, des lignes m√©lodiques si facile √† m√©moriser qu’elles s’impr√®gnent imm√©diatement dans l’esprit, des effets prenants, une histoire singuli√®re (celle de No√©). Bref tout pour plaire. Surtout, quand un tel chef se l’approprie, en donne une vision engag√©e, avec des chanteurs compl√®tement en phase avec son approche. C’√©tait d√©cid√©, il fallait aller v√©rifier en concert que cela √©tait bien r√©el, et ressentir cette musique en direct, √©prouver les √©motions dans la salle.

Seulement voil√†, bien qu’elle f√Ľt souvent redonn√©e √† Ambronay, cela ne collait jamais avec nos contraintes, d’autres concerts ou ceux que nous faisions, et je d√©sesp√©rais de pouvoir le voir le temps passant.

Aussi quand j’ai vu en Mai 2016 que l’oeuvre √©tait de nouveau programm√©e √† Lyon pour Mai 2017, j’ai saut√© sur l’occasion, r√©serv√© les places et bloqu√© la date. Et bien cette semaine, apr√®s 7 ans d’attente, j’ai enfin pu entendre cette pi√®ce √† l’Auditorium Maurice Ravel. Certes, ce n’est pas la meilleure acoustique du monde, mais finalement, √©tant tr√®s bien plac√© en orchestre, on pouvait capter tous les d√©tails (quels archiluths !) et profiter des inflexions des voix de fa√ßon tr√®s pr√©cise. Une mise en espace √©tait faire pour rendre l’histoire plus pr√©sente, simple et de bon go√Ľt.

La prise de r√īle de Roberta Mammeli en Rad a √©t√© somptueuse. Le trio avec Magali Arnault Stanczak et Emmanuelle de Negri fait mouche et chavirer la salle. Il faudra le bisser. Du reste le chef nous a gratifi√© de 4 bis, ce qui n’√©tait que justice (pour nous !) au vu du succ√®s obtenu, que l’on peut vraiment qualifier de triomphe. Les vois de femmes dominent compl√®tement pour moi la distribution. Le No√© de Fernando Guimaraes est noble, mais manque un peu de conviction, ou de puissance pour s’affirmer d’avantage. La Mort de Fabian Schofrin est bien grim√©e, mais son chant n’est ni agr√©able (ce que l’on peut comprendre pour un tel personnage) ni prenant. On regrette un Dominique Visse qui serait parfait dans ce genre d’emploi.

Mais vétille ! Les percussions de Keyvan Chemirani apportent un plus indéniable à la musique, sans la trahir, et rendent les danses virevoltante. Bravo au chef pour cette résurrection et surtout de continuer à faire tourner cette production pour que de nombreux autres spectateurs puissent la voir.

Si seulement les organisateurs de la MC2 pouvaient s’inspirer de leurs voisins et convier ce spectacle dans l’auditorium, ce serait une vrai perfection sonore combin√©e ! A bon entendeur …

Une victoire méritée

2017/05/08

Cela faisait des ann√©es qu’il en r√™vait: faire partager sa passion √† tous ses fans pour un grand oeuvre. Mais cela fut compliqu√©, il fallait r√©unir beaucoup de soutiens, dans toute l’Europe si possible, avoir les financements n√©cessaires (par ces temps de disette budg√©taire, c’est d√©licat), avoir le bon plateau, avec les r√īles titres qui pourront s’imposer et faire chavirer et les meilleurs autour de lui pour porter le programme, dont des jeunes pour la mise en sc√®ne. Que de pers√©v√©rance il lui a fallu pour r√©ussir ! Que de travail en amont, comme l’a confirm√©e la r√©union publique √† laquelle nous avons pu assister avant le grand moment. Il faut dire qu’on attendait cela depuis si longtemps. En fait depuis l’ancien r√©gime, rien de tel ne s’√©tait produit.

Mais ce samedi, j’ai pu v√©rifier que tout √©tait vraiment en place et serait parfait pour le jour ultime, ce dimanche.

Alors oui, le grand moment que tous attendaient √©tait enfin l√†: Jordi Savall nous ramenait Alcione de Marin Marais en France, en la proposant √† l’Op√©ra Comique, s√©ance retransmise aussi sur Mezzo, enregistr√©e √©galement, ce qui devrait nous assurer non seulement un disque mais surtout un DVD. Et c’est m√©rit√©, car depuis 1706, date de sa cr√©ation et 1771, date de derni√®re repr√©sentation, on ne l’avait pas vue sur sc√®ne. Et c’√©tait dommage tant elle repr√©sente un pendant √† l’Atys de Lully. Depuis qu’il avait d√©couvert Marin Marais en France au d√©but des ann√©es 70, Jordi Savall avait, √† de nombreuses reprises, tent√© d’en redonner le plus bel op√©ra, apr√®s avoir si bien servi les livres de pi√®ces de viole. Mais il lui a fallu attendre 2017 pour y arriver finalement.

Et quel plateau: un Marc Mauillon en Pel√©e absolument radieux, d’un timbre sonore sans agressivit√©, touchant dans ses regrets, dosant pianos √† merveille et d’une pr√©sence remarquable sur sc√®ne. Je suis fan ! Mais fan aussi de Cyril Auvity √† qui la noblesse de Ceix va tr√®s bien, son timbre de haute contre √† la fran√ßaise soulignant aussi bien ses effrois que son amour. Lui aussi tr√®s bon acteur sur sc√®ne nous touche dans ses √©mois. L’Alcione de L√©a Desandre m’est d’abord apparue plus en retrait. Tr√®s “potiche” jusqu’√† l’acte IV, assez raide dans son jeu (peut-√™tre est-ce voulu par la mise, et m√™me √©crit), elle change compl√®tement apr√®s l’entracte et mobilise la sc√®ne ensuite jusqu’√† la fin avec un chant de plus en plus impliqu√©, des sons fil√©s magnifiques (enfin une soprano dont le vibrato ne suppl√©e pas le besoin de puissance) et un engagement enfin cr√©dible qui rend sa douleur poignante. Certes, encore un peu de raideur dans le jeu, mais l’√©coute est si belle, que cela passe au second plan. Les seconds r√īles sont fort bons eux aussi, notamment avec une mention sp√©ciale pour Sebastian Monti en Apollon/sommeil avec l√† aussi un timbre tr√®s s√©duisant. Il jouera vraisemblablement bient√īt les premiers r√īles √† son tour. Avec pour tous un plus fabuleux: une diction exemplaire ! Bravo.

La mise en sc√®ne est tr√®s centr√©e sur l’art circassien. Cela passe tr√®s bien pour les matelots ou la sc√®ne des enfers (effets de groupes rampants superbes), moins √† mon go√Ľt √† d’autres passages o√Ļ cela surcharge trop la vision et nuit √† l’appr√©ciation de la musique (pourtant somptueuse de bout en bout, √©videmment, la maestro Savall dirige parmi les meilleurs musiciens de la plan√®te baroque avec un Manfredo Kraemer imp√©rial au premier violon dans ses tenues droites et si justes, ou le traverso po√©tique de Marc Hanta√Į, sans oublier mes pr√©f√©r√©es, les fl√Ľtes √† bec de S√©bastien Marq ou Pierre Hamon, tous habitu√©s du ma√ģtre catalan).

J’aurai aim√© que la balance entre art du cirque et vraie danse soit un peu plus favorable √† la seconde, notamment quand on voit la si belle danse d’inspiration baroque effectu√©e par l’ensemble lors de la c√©l√®bre chaconne finale. A noter la participation active des choristes √† toute l’action, y compris circassienne, qui donne une grande dynamique au spectacle.

Louise Moaty a finalement plut√īt bien r√©ussi cette mise en sc√®ne, moderne et symbolique, mais pas artificiellement d√©cal√©e, un peu trop anim√©e parfois, mais sachant aussi √™tre tr√®s po√©tique, comme la superbe utilisation des drap√©s pour la sc√®ne du temple et de la temp√™te, sans doute la plus m√©morable du spectacle.

Le maestro nous a confirm√© que le spectacle tournerait encore, apr√®s les dates pr√©vues sur Versailles, Caen ou Barcelone, jusqu’en 2019 ! C’est une tr√®s bonne nouvelle qui devrait vous permettre d’aller le voir, si vous n’√©tiez pas √† Paris ce week-end pour pouvoir voter bien s√Ľr.

Et √† propos de ceci, il est √† noter que ce quinquennat se profile sous les meilleurs auspices du point de vue de la musique savante, avec une utilisation de la neuvi√®me symphonie de Beethoven d√®s le premier jour. “Pourvou qu’√ßa doure !” devait dire √† son fils √† peine plus vieux une m√®re pleine d’espoir. Et nous aujourd’hui de rench√©rir, tant pour le soutien √† la musique de notre nouveau pr√©sident, que pour le plaisir toujours renouvel√© d’assister au travail √©poustouflant que r√©alise Jordi Savall depuis pr√®s de 50 ans, notamment pour la d√©fense du r√©pertoire baroque fran√ßais. La France s’honorerait de lui attribuer le titre de commandeur de la l√©gion d’honneur (puisqu’il l’est d√©j√† pour les Arts et les Lettres, et comme vous pourrez maintenant le v√©rifier dans Wikipedia qui n’√©tait pas √† jour !). Le 14 Juillet est proche ūüôā

This week, gift continues with project-builder

2017/03/08

Normally, today I receive gifts, priviledge (really ?) of being older ūüôā But I can also make gifts myself ! So after python-redfish 0.4 yesterday, I’m announcing the release of project-builder 0.14.3 today (and maybe more to come later this week !)

This project seems to have a quicker pace than MondoRescue, maybe due to the fact I’m using it daily, and that it’s now used by python-redfish, MondoRescue, and also FOSSology (WIP more on that later again). I realize I didn’t announced previous versions 0.14.1 last July, and 0.14.2 last January, but lots have been added since.

I’ve worked on this version to improve deb support (no arch pkg) and especially deb repositories (with GPG keys) as well as OpenSUSE GPG signed repositories as well. Previous versions brought support for latest distros (Fedora 25, Ubuntu 16.10 e.g.), robust build using Docker in addition to VMs or chroot VEs, fixes some issues around conf files analysis, improving rpm package name for smooth upgrade between test and stable versions, renaming temporary dirs for consistency, as well as moving the main conf file outside of /etc reserved for local modifications, … Changelogs have all the nasty details.

One of the task I’d like to make now is to move the conf file format to JSON, to benefit from existing libs to manage them, and make them even easier to deal with. That would allow some other improvements afterwards, but too early to talk about.

Oh, and BTW, we decided to also publish python-redfish 0.4.1 (with its packages made with project-builder.org to keep this article’s focus ūüėČ ) to fix a nasty error we made when pushing to pypi. Enjoy as well !